Tom - Sorry it has taken a few days for me to get back to you. I know you will understand that we are in the middle of grading period and progress reports must take precedence.
I do think the right to life is the most important right we have. So far there have only been two or three cases against us...Kent State comes to mind and I believe there was a soldier shot in 1940's for desertion. My issue is that the type of weapon allowed by the Framers was a muzzle-loader, which took considerably more time than an assault rifle to get off even one more shot. remember the case against Oswald...was whether or not he could get off the two shots in the few seconds the motorcade was in range, leading to the Magic Bullet presentation by the FBI. (As far as I know, only children under 6 believed this fairy story.) If the right to life is sacrosanct, how could we justify this for citizen killing citizen? I can't get there. I can't understand the need for battlefield weaponry used against little kids. There's no legitimate justification. You can't hunt with it - the meat would be totaled destroyed and poisoned, even if you got it field dressed in under 15 minutes. The bullets would have to pass through some part of the digestive tract. I have no problem with hunting - as long as it's animals. I do have a porblem with a school shooting once a week, and gang shootings every night here in Nashville. And you wouldn't hunt with an assault rifle and a 30 round magazine.
The higher taxes argument should be self-evident. Government and its citizens have provided a system of government which enforces contracts, requires certain safeguards, provides public goods from which we all benefit..such as roads, highways, food inspection, clean water and cleaner air, etc. People who have done well in business have benefited...perhaps disproportionally. Should they not expect to contribute? Democracy comes not only with rights - there are responsibilities. Taxes are one. We should not have to pay taxes at an amount that allows us to do without basic necessities. A fine example would be trucks that say on the back: "This vehicle pays $3,226.41 per year in road taxes." OK. But how much damage does it do? The wealthy businessmen and corporations are sitting on nearly $3BN they received in tax relief. So - where are the jobs? Oh. I see - we have made productivity gains and we don't need to hire anyone. But - they took the government's cash...why shouldn't they pay in? Are they really individuals as the courts have proclaimed? Methinks not. Farm subsidies were granted to keep farm families on the land and to insure that we have enough arable land to feed ourselves. Know who gets the money? Hin: Not individuals. The idea in my mind is that those who benefited from an environment that educated them, and gave them the opportunities and safeguards necessary to succeed ought to contribute so that someone else might have those same benefits. It's not punishment - it's right and reasonable and necessary to continue the successes we already have.
So the arguments that you and others have put forward are pretty shallow - I want one because I can have one. You might be attacked, an intruder...blah blah blah. Here in TN the legislators have approved a bill allowing guns in bars and restaurants. Who wants to be in the middle of the OK corral during desert? No one, and so the number of diners has DECREASED. No wonder the restauranteurs are so angry. So - once again, my personal safety is in greater danger rather than lesser. I am not only unarmed - I have no idea which guy is the good guy and which is not. It's not a simple situation - like breaking up a schoolyard fight where the victim will make eye contact with any authority figure on the scene. So - my liberty is reduced because I don't feel safe going to dinner at certain restaurants.
Enough! L
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom <boldsaber@gmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 1, 2013 11:38 am
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
I really don't want to get dragged into the argument, because IMO, the point is moot.
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-- From: Tom <boldsaber@gmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 1, 2013 11:38 am
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
I don't mean to drag you into the debate but you make one comment about the right to guns stops with your right to life. I agree with you totally on that issue but do not find the inalienable right to self defense and therefore the inalienable right (that's what the anti-federalists were trying to protect with their demand for the inclusion of the 10 Amendments of the Bill of Rights) to keep and bear arms to be incompatible with the right to life specified in the Declaration of Independence. Rather it is yet one more protection of that right to life by allowing the use of a tool for defense. Those who murder others can do so without a weapon of any kind if they are physically capable of doing so and so inclined. A passionate case was made in the hearing by a young woman who reminded a Senator who was "large" or as she amended amid the guffaws, "tall" that he was not a young woman protecting her young children against a home invader with an intent to maliciously harm them. Physically she did not believe that she could defend herself and her children but that having a legal gun would be the equalizer which could save her life and the lives of her kids. It really doesn't get much simpler than that. That same woman could have had her right to life infringed purely because her right to self defense and to keep and bear arms was infringed by a government which erroneously sees an inanimate tool as an enemy rather than the broken person who wields that tool or uses his own superiority in strength and bulk to take her life.
Why higher taxes? Are they to correct a wrong or to contribute something to our society or are they solely punitive to punish those who use one of their inalienable rights?
I agree that those who commit a felony with a gun in their possession should be penalized strenuously after their trial by their peers and that punishments be swift and severe.
Why do you have a problem with those who hunt (I don't) or who target shoot (how else does one maintain the skills needed to use that tool safely and efficiently)? Hunters are part of the ecological cycle, believe it or not. That's why certain areas open up special seasons on occasion to cull herds of animals which are growing beyond the capacity of their grazing grounds and endangering the other animals who share that area with them. Most hunters are efficient woodsmen who understand and love the nature that God has provided them. Not all of them, obviously, but most of them are far more attuned to nature and ecology than most people.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lynnk05@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 8:27 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 8:27 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
I really don't want to get dragged into the argument, because IMO, the point is moot.
With the4th collect up your guns is ridiculous. But Fox continues to spread that particular tale. I am almost certain that Rush is also spreading the poison. I can't verify that since I don't listen to his show. (I'm at work.)
The 2008 court is highly conservative. The current doctrine is that there are no Constitutional barriers to citizens having guns in their homes. I have no problem with that.
So - where's the rub? Well, IMO, there should not be protection for assault weapons and high speed magazines. We need to re-enact the limits Clinton placed on guns in 1994. No hollow point rounds, etc. We probably wouldn't even feel the difference. The Framers did not anticipate that these weapons would exist. (I imagine most of them would have trouble with light bulbs.)
The question is where do the rights to own guns stop? I think where my right to live begins, and the right to life should be more sacred. It is completely inalienable.
I would like to see higher taxes on certain types of ammunition. I have problem with people who hunt or target shoot. I do have problem with people who know they have a nut case in the house and teach him to use an assault weapon.
I believe that we need to really investiagte people who buy these guns and ammunition. I mean really investigate. Mental health issues would be at the top of my list.
I also think that when a crime is commited with any gun, the consequences should be serious and severe, and if anyone is killed during a crime it should be murder in the first degree. (After all, if you planned to rob the convenience store with an assault rifle, you evidently planned to kill anyone who stood in your way.)
I also think that when a crime is commited with any gun, the consequences should be serious and severe, and if anyone is killed during a crime it should be murder in the first degree. (After all, if you planned to rob the convenience store with an assault rifle, you evidently planned to kill anyone who stood in your way.)
Arming teachers is just plain stuipid. L
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Talbot <larry.talbot@hotmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 31, 2013 6:33 pm
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
From: Larry Talbot <larry.talbot@hotmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 31, 2013 6:33 pm
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
Lynne, I know that you're not a Zebra(Ref) but what's your opinion?
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
From: lynnk05@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:12:59 -0500
I am not the referee. L
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
From: lynnk05@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:12:59 -0500
I am not the referee. L
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Talbot <larry.talbot@hotmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 30, 2013 11:21 am
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
From: Larry Talbot <larry.talbot@hotmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 30, 2013 11:21 am
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
.and Lynne, that's exactly the point that I asked Greg to prove, that being, showing the thread exactly where in the Second Amendmant where it addresses the citizen's right to bear arms outside of a "well regulated militia". So far all Greg has done is stonewall.Would you agree with that, Lynne?
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 07:49:09 -0800
From: greg.vincent@yahoo.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
CC: greg.vincent@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
I respectfully disagree Lynn. SCOTUS ruled the DC handgun ban was illegal (unconstitutional) because they determined the 2nd Amendment "protects an individual right, unconnected with service in a militia".
That law is no longer in effect because of that. That is law.
On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:17:54 PM UTC-6, Lynne wrote:
From: greg.vincent@yahoo.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
CC: greg.vincent@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
I respectfully disagree Lynn. SCOTUS ruled the DC handgun ban was illegal (unconstitutional) because they determined the 2nd Amendment "protects an individual right, unconnected with service in a militia".
That law is no longer in effect because of that. That is law.
On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:17:54 PM UTC-6, Lynne wrote:
True. But since there is no enforcement arm for the Supremes, it's moot. After three days of bull I move we move on.Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
GregfromBoston <greg.v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>SCOTUS rulings are law. Deep stuff
>
>On Tuesday, January 29, 2013here, and 9:08:21 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>>
>> So, now you've run out of ideas. I knew that you'd reach the end of your
>> limits soon.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:04:18 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com <javascript:>
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> Good doggy
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:36:29 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>>
>> Mad?No. Are you having another seizure?Once again your stupidity comes to
>> the fore.Also, again,you're off subject. BTW, you said you were done.That
>> makes you a liar also.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:25:16 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> Oooh. REALLY mad.
>>
>> SCOTUS decisions have nothing to do with law. Funny and mad is a bonus.
>> Speak Ubu, speak
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2013 2:04:16 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>>
>> You lose.,Imbecile. Learn to comprehend and respond correctly when spoken
>> to..Done.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:47:47 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> He's mad.
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> Gravy
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2013 12:25:58 PM UTC-5, Larry wrote:
>>
>> I am also sure that I shouldn't expect everyone to have the ability to
>> mentally get beyond a personal agenda or even personal hypocrisy to answer
>> a straight forward question when put to them. Civics is easy, getting past
>> one's own personal Hypocrisy is something else, as having been proven by
>> Greg. My worse. And the part that will be overlooked by the thread members
>> is that the question will still go unanswered.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:50:00 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> SCOTUS decisions and interpretations being law is a tad more than an
>> opinion. I am sure I shouldn't expect everyone to have passed, or even
>> taken civics. My bad.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:57:03 PM UTC-5, Lynne wrote:
>>
>> I have not found that to be true, but I agree Greg is very opinionated. L
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Larry Talbot <larry....@hotmail.com>
>> To: opendebateforum <opendeb...@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sat, Jan 26, 2013 12:23 am
>> Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> Greg is an idiot ,Lynne. he can't answer a simple question when put to
>> him. Good luck
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:30:36 -0600
>> > Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > From: lyn...@aol.com
>> > To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> >
>> > We talked about this once before but I don't remember what your
>> objection was. Wanna go around again?
>> >
>> > Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
>> >
>> > GregfromBoston <greg.v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Its fine that you think SCOTUS is wrong. Lots of people think they were
>> > >wrong on Roe (not I). Lots of people think the were wrong on Citzens
>> > >United. I think they were wrong on Kelo. It doesn't matter at all.
>> > >Their rulings are law. Ergo, the 2nd amendment protects an individual
>> > >right, until they say otherwise, or we amend the constitution - neither
>> of
>> > >which is gonna happen anytime soon.
>> > >
>> > >On Thursday, January 24, 2013 3:12:53 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Yea-yeah, Greg. The whole point was that the knuckledraggers were
>> saying
>> > >> that the second Amendment guarantees average citizens the right to
>> bear
>> > >> arms and for those that like to treat the second amendmant as gospel
>> are
>> > >> wrong.SCotus ruled later than the second amendment so those that say
>> that
>> > >> the second amendment guarantees that right are wrong.
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:05:22 -0800
>> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com <javascript:>
>> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > >>
>> > >> Stand all you like. When SCOTUS defines an amendment in a ruling, the
>> > >> definition is law as is the ruling. Their interpretation of the 14th
>> in
>> > >> Roe, IS law, ditto the 2nd in Heller.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:40:56 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> No, not end of story Greggie. I stand by my previous post.
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:33:16 -0800
>> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > >>
>> > >> Psst, I have always supported the Roe decision. Not that it matters.
>> > >> THAT is the point
>> > >>
>> > >> If SCOTUS interpretation doesn't matter, the all those anti-abortion
>> laws
>> > >> are back on the books. It DOES matter, just as their ruling on the
>> 2nd
>> > >> does. End of story.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:14:49 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> If your a purist then you are correct about the 14th. And you should
>> do
>> > >> the same , like I've said about the 2nd.So, what's you're point. So
>> > >> basically you can be a purist when it comes to the 14th but you can
>> > >> fantasize about the second? I get it now, you're hypocrisy goes only
>> so far.
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:15:37 -0800
>> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > >>
>> > >> Interesting that when SCOTUS quotes its INTERPRETATION of the 14th
>> > >> amendment, and strikes down anti-abortion laws, they are the light of
>> the
>> > >> constitution, but when they quote their INTERPRETATION of the 2nd
>> amendment
>> > >> and strike down anti-gun laws, they are irrelevant, ain't it Larry?
>> > >> --
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GregfromBoston <greg.v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>SCOTUS rulings are law. Deep stuff
>
>On Tuesday, January 29, 2013here, and 9:08:21 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>>
>> So, now you've run out of ideas. I knew that you'd reach the end of your
>> limits soon.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:04:18 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com <javascript:>
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> Good doggy
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:36:29 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>>
>> Mad?No. Are you having another seizure?Once again your stupidity comes to
>> the fore.Also, again,you're off subject. BTW, you said you were done.That
>> makes you a liar also.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:25:16 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> Oooh. REALLY mad.
>>
>> SCOTUS decisions have nothing to do with law. Funny and mad is a bonus.
>> Speak Ubu, speak
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2013 2:04:16 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>>
>> You lose.,Imbecile. Learn to comprehend and respond correctly when spoken
>> to..Done.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:47:47 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> He's mad.
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> Gravy
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2013 12:25:58 PM UTC-5, Larry wrote:
>>
>> I am also sure that I shouldn't expect everyone to have the ability to
>> mentally get beyond a personal agenda or even personal hypocrisy to answer
>> a straight forward question when put to them. Civics is easy, getting past
>> one's own personal Hypocrisy is something else, as having been proven by
>> Greg. My worse. And the part that will be overlooked by the thread members
>> is that the question will still go unanswered.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:50:00 -0800
>> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> SCOTUS decisions and interpretations being law is a tad more than an
>> opinion. I am sure I shouldn't expect everyone to have passed, or even
>> taken civics. My bad.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:57:03 PM UTC-5, Lynne wrote:
>>
>> I have not found that to be true, but I agree Greg is very opinionated. L
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Larry Talbot <larry....@hotmail.com>
>> To: opendebateforum <opendeb...@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sat, Jan 26, 2013 12:23 am
>> Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>>
>> Greg is an idiot ,Lynne. he can't answer a simple question when put to
>> him. Good luck
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:30:36 -0600
>> > Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > From: lyn...@aol.com
>> > To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> >
>> > We talked about this once before but I don't remember what your
>> objection was. Wanna go around again?
>> >
>> > Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
>> >
>> > GregfromBoston <greg.v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Its fine that you think SCOTUS is wrong. Lots of people think they were
>> > >wrong on Roe (not I). Lots of people think the were wrong on Citzens
>> > >United. I think they were wrong on Kelo. It doesn't matter at all.
>> > >Their rulings are law. Ergo, the 2nd amendment protects an individual
>> > >right, until they say otherwise, or we amend the constitution - neither
>> of
>> > >which is gonna happen anytime soon.
>> > >
>> > >On Thursday, January 24, 2013 3:12:53 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Yea-yeah, Greg. The whole point was that the knuckledraggers were
>> saying
>> > >> that the second Amendment guarantees average citizens the right to
>> bear
>> > >> arms and for those that like to treat the second amendmant as gospel
>> are
>> > >> wrong.SCotus ruled later than the second amendment so those that say
>> that
>> > >> the second amendment guarantees that right are wrong.
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:05:22 -0800
>> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com <javascript:>
>> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > >>
>> > >> Stand all you like. When SCOTUS defines an amendment in a ruling, the
>> > >> definition is law as is the ruling. Their interpretation of the 14th
>> in
>> > >> Roe, IS law, ditto the 2nd in Heller.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:40:56 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> No, not end of story Greggie. I stand by my previous post.
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:33:16 -0800
>> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > >>
>> > >> Psst, I have always supported the Roe decision. Not that it matters.
>> > >> THAT is the point
>> > >>
>> > >> If SCOTUS interpretation doesn't matter, the all those anti-abortion
>> laws
>> > >> are back on the books. It DOES matter, just as their ruling on the
>> 2nd
>> > >> does. End of story.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:14:49 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> If your a purist then you are correct about the 14th. And you should
>> do
>> > >> the same , like I've said about the 2nd.So, what's you're point. So
>> > >> basically you can be a purist when it comes to the 14th but you can
>> > >> fantasize about the second? I get it now, you're hypocrisy goes only
>> so far.
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:15:37 -0800
>> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
>> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
>> > >>
>> > >> Interesting that when SCOTUS quotes its INTERPRETATION of the 14th
>> > >> amendment, and strikes down anti-abortion laws, they are the light of
>> the
>> > >> constitution, but when they quote their INTERPRETATION of the 2nd
>> amendment
>> > >> and strike down anti-gun laws, they are irrelevant, ain't it Larry?
>> > >> --
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