Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 12:04:57 -0600
Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
From: gtheist957@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
how about "the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
And you apparently find government, the functions of its three branches, and the constitution too far beyond your ken to be able to follow the bouncing ball and sing the words of the song.
Back in your box, Larry.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 5:40 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
You poor sot, Tom.The USSC is not the issue. Where does it say in the Constitution that citizens have the right to bears arms?Let's see if you can stay on track here. So far Greg can't stay on the rails,let's see if you can.
From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:52:48 -0600The USSC clarified that for us in their decision and they are the branch that has the authority to do that clarification. It is now settled law that the people have the right to keep and bear arms.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:14 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
t's even simpler ,Tom " The phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Tells you what shall not be infringed "
It not differentiated in the wording of the Second Amendment.You can opinionate all that you want and like the Bible , people can interpret the Constitution any way they see that is comfortable to their own belief system.Bottom line is that The wording of the second amendment does not guarantee the right for citizens to bear arms.
From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:52:39 -0600It's really pretty simple, Larry. The phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Tells you what shall not be infringed , the first phrase "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" is simply one of the reasons that it shall not be infringed. Looking at the Declaration of Independence, the second paragraph starts with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" One of those inalienable rights is that of "Life", that seems to indicate a "implied" duty of the government to defend the lives of its citizens but also an implied duty of the citizen to defend his life. How does one do that? With rocks alone? But then arms refers to a weapon and a rock is certainly a weapon if used in the right way, but then so are firearms. Arm is also a transitive verb meaning to provide someone with the knowledge or equipment to carry out a task. In other words it seems that the declaration of independence states that maintaining life is one inalienable right and that arms, as used in the second Amendment provides the equipment to maintain one's life. The "militia" is only another tool used to provide "collective" protection of that life.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:17 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
No Tom. The point was that The Second Amendment alone does not address the issue of granting a citizen (except as a member of a well regulated militia) the right to bear arms. I challenge you to prove it. Don't tell me that your as thick headed as Greg.I thought that you were better educated than that. The point was that better than a week ago now, I brought up the fact that some of these seething so called Constitutionalists said that the second amendment guarantees the right of the citizen to bear arms. In my copy of the Constitution is doesn't say that anywhere. People keep referring to what the ScOTUS' interpretation is. I'm not talking about the SCOTUS' interpretation , I'm talking about the exact text of the second amendment.
From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:34:36 -0600The POINT is that the Supreme Court is the branch of the Federal Government tasked with interpreting the law and the Constitution. That Court ruled that the Second Amendment DOES address a citizen's right, granted by the creator, not the government, to bear arms whether they be a part of a militia or not, and that the natural right described SHALL not be infringed by Government. That is neither a wish nor a hope, but the interpretation of the Amendment in question by those who are granted that authority in the Constitution.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:52 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
That's nice but what you posted isn't contained in the second amendment. I know that people are trying to wish very hard that the second amendment adresses a citizen's right to bear arms outside of a well regulated militia but it doesn't.
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:29:31 -0800
> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> From: plainolamerican@gmail.com
> To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
>
> where in the Second Amendmant where it addresses the citizen's right
> to bear arms outside of a "well regulated militia"
> ---
> In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court
> ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to
> possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that
> arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the
> home within many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on
> firearms possession listed by the Court as being consistent with the
> Second Amendment.
>
> On Jan 30, 11:21 am, Larry Talbot <larry.tal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > .and Lynne, that's exactly the point that I asked Greg to prove, that being, showing the thread exactly where in the Second Amendmant where it addresses the citizen's right to bear arms outside of a "well regulated militia". So far all Greg has done is stonewall.Would you agree with that, Lynne?
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 07:49:09 -0800
> > From: greg.vinc...@yahoo.com
> > To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
> > CC: greg.vinc...@yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > I respectfully disagree Lynn. SCOTUS ruled the DC handgun ban was illegal (unconstitutional) because they determined the 2nd Amendment "protects an individual right, unconnected with service in a militia".
> >
> > That law is no longer in effect because of that. That is law.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:17:54 PM UTC-6, Lynne wrote:True. But since there is no enforcement arm for the Supremes, it's moot. After three days of bull I move we move on.Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&TGregfromBoston <greg.v...@yahoo.com> wrote:>SCOTUS rulings are law. Deep stuff
> >
> > >On Tuesday, January 29, 2013here, and 9:08:21 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> So, now you've run out of ideas. I knew that you'd reach the end of your
> > >> limits soon.
> >
> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:04:18 -0800
> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com <javascript:>
> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> Good doggy
> >
> > >> On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:36:29 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> Mad?No. Are you having another seizure?Once again your stupidity comes to
> > >> the fore.Also, again,you're off subject. BTW, you said you were done.That
> > >> makes you a liar also.
> >
> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:25:16 -0800
> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> Oooh. REALLY mad.
> >
> > >> SCOTUS decisions have nothing to do with law. Funny and mad is a bonus.
> > >> Speak Ubu, speak
> >
> > >> On Monday, January 28, 2013 2:04:16 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> You lose.,Imbecile. Learn to comprehend and respond correctly when spoken
> > >> to..Done.
> >
> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:47:47 -0800
> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> He's mad.
> >
> > >> Done.
> >
> > >> Gravy
> >
> > >> On Monday, January 28, 2013 12:25:58 PM UTC-5, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> I am also sure that I shouldn't expect everyone to have the ability to
> > >> mentally get beyond a personal agenda or even personal hypocrisy to answer
> > >> a straight forward question when put to them. Civics is easy, getting past
> > >> one's own personal Hypocrisy is something else, as having been proven by
> > >> Greg. My worse. And the part that will be overlooked by the thread members
> > >> is that the question will still go unanswered.
> >
> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:50:00 -0800
> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> SCOTUS decisions and interpretations being law is a tad more than an
> > >> opinion. I am sure I shouldn't expect everyone to have passed, or even
> > >> taken civics. My bad.
> >
> > >> On Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:57:03 PM UTC-5, Lynne wrote:
> >
> > >> I have not found that to be true, but I agree Greg is very opinionated. L
> >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Larry Talbot <larry....@hotmail.com>
> > >> To: opendebateforum <opendeb...@googlegroups.com>
> > >> Sent: Sat, Jan 26, 2013 12:23 am
> > >> Subject: RE: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> Greg is an idiot ,Lynne. he can't answer a simple question when put to
> > >> him. Good luck
> >
> > >> > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:30:36 -0600
> > >> > Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> > >> > From: lyn...@aol.com
> > >> > To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
> >
> > >> > We talked about this once before but I don't remember what your
> > >> objection was. Wanna go around again?
> >
> > >> > Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
> >
> > >> > GregfromBoston <greg.v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> > >Its fine that you think SCOTUS is wrong. Lots of people think they were
> > >> > >wrong on Roe (not I). Lots of people think the were wrong on Citzens
> > >> > >United. I think they were wrong on Kelo. It doesn't matter at all.
> > >> > >Their rulings are law. Ergo, the 2nd amendment protects an individual
> > >> > >right, until they say otherwise, or we amend the constitution - neither
> > >> of
> > >> > >which is gonna happen anytime soon.
> >
> > >> > >On Thursday, January 24, 2013 3:12:53 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> > >> Yea-yeah, Greg. The whole point was that the knuckledraggers were
> > >> saying
> > >> > >> that the second Amendment guarantees average citizens the right to
> > >> bear
> > >> > >> arms and for those that like to treat the second amendmant as gospel
> > >> are
> > >> > >> wrong.SCotus ruled later than the second amendment so those that say
> > >> that
> > >> > >> the second amendment guarantees that right are wrong.
> >
> > >> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> > >> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:05:22 -0800
> > >> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com <javascript:>
> > >> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> > >> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> > >> Stand all you like. When SCOTUS defines an amendment in a ruling, the
> > >> > >> definition is law as is the ruling. Their interpretation of the 14th
> > >> in
> > >> > >> Roe, IS law, ditto the 2nd in Heller.
> >
> > >> > >> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:40:56 PM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> > >> No, not end of story Greggie. I stand by my previous post.
> >
> > >> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> > >> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:33:16 -0800
> > >> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
> > >> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
> > >> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> > >> Psst, I have always supported the Roe decision. Not that it matters.
> > >> > >> THAT is the point
> >
> > >> > >> If SCOTUS interpretation doesn't matter, the all those anti-abortion
> > >> laws
> > >> > >> are back on the books. It DOES matter, just as their ruling on the
> > >> 2nd
> > >> > >> does. End of story.
> >
> > >> > >> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:14:49 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> >
> > >> > >> If your a purist then you are correct about the 14th. And you should
> > >> do
> > >> > >> the same , like I've said about the 2nd.So, what's you're point. So
> > >> > >> basically you can be a purist when it comes to the 14th but you can
> > >> > >> fantasize about the second? I get it now, you're hypocrisy goes only
> > >> so far.
> >
> > >> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> > >> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:15:37 -0800
> > >> > >> From: greg.v...@yahoo.com
> > >> > >> To: opendeb...@googlegroups.com
> > >> > >> Subject: Re: Proof the 2nd Amendment isn't just for muskets or militia
> >
> > >> > >> Interesting that when SCOTUS quotes its INTERPRETATION of the 14th
> > >> > >> amendment, and strikes down anti-abortion laws, they are the light of
> > >> the
> > >> > >> constitution, but when they quote their INTERPRETATION of the 2nd
> > >> amendment
> > >> > >> and strike down anti-gun laws, they are irrelevant, ain't it Larry?
> > >> > >> --
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