Re: Secret ‘Kill List’ Proves a Test of Obama’s Principles and Will

You kiss him, he has cooties!

On May 29, 5:40 pm, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, he's a college snot, whoop his ass good
>
> imitate his style
>
> beat him at his own game of being vague
>
> On 5/29/12, OccupySpring <soprano.olivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Lynn hates me, should I care? :o)
>
> > On May 29, 5:12 pm, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> A few sharp-eyed observers inside and outside the government
> >> understood what the public did not. Without showing his hand, Mr.
> >> Obama had preserved three major policies — rendition, military
> >> commissions and indefinite detention — that have been targets of human
> >> rights groups since the 2001 terrorist attacks.
>
> >> But a year later, with Congress trying to force him to try all
> >> terrorism suspects using revamped military commissions, he deployed
> >> his legal skills differently — to preserve trials in civilian courts.
>
> >> The president "seems to think that if he gives terrorists the rights
> >> of Americans, lets them lawyer up and reads them their Miranda rights,
> >> we won't be at war," former Vice President Dick Cheney charged
>
> >> F.B.I. agents had questioned Mr. Abdulmutallab for 50 minutes and
> >> gained valuable intelligence before giving him the warning. They had
> >> relied on a 1984 case called New York v. Quarles, in which the Supreme
> >> Court ruled that statements made by a suspect in response to urgent
> >> public safety questions — the case involved the location of a gun —
> >> could be introduced into evidence even if the suspect had not been
> >> advised of the right to remain silent.
>
> >> That same mind-set would be brought to bear as the president
> >> intensified what would become a withering campaign to use unmanned
> >> aircraft to kill Qaeda terrorists.
>
> >> It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting
> >> civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts
> >> all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to
> >> several administration officials, unless there is explicit
> >> intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.
>
> >> Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple
> >> logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a
> >> top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good. "Al Qaeda is an
> >> insular, paranoid organization — innocent neighbors don't hitchhike
> >> rides in the back of trucks headed for the border with guns and
> >> bombs," said one official, who requested anonymity to speak about what
> >> is still a classified program.
>
> >> This counting method may partly explain the official claims of
> >> extraordinarily low collateral deaths. In a speech last year Mr.
> >> Brennan, Mr. Obama's trusted adviser, said that not a single
> >> noncombatant had been killed in a year of strikes. And in a recent
> >> interview, a senior administration official said that the number of
> >> civilians killed in drone strikes in Pakistan under Mr. Obama was in
> >> the "single digits" — and that independent counts of scores or
> >> hundreds of civilian deaths unwittingly draw on false propaganda
> >> claims by militants.
>
> >> But in interviews, three former senior intelligence officials
> >> expressed disbelief that the number could be so low. The C.I.A.
> >> accounting has so troubled some administration officials outside the
> >> agency that they have brought their concerns to the White House. One
> >> called it "guilt by association" that has led to "deceptive" estimates
> >> of civilian casualties.
>
> >> It was not only Mr. Obama's distaste for legislative backslapping and
> >> arm-twisting, but also part of a deeper pattern, said an
> >> administration official who has watched him closely: the president
> >> seemed to have "a sense that if he sketches a vision, it will happen —
> >> without his really having thought through the mechanism by which it
> >> will happen."
>
> >> Asked what surprised him most about Mr. Obama, Mr. Donilon, the
> >> national security adviser, answered immediately: "He's a president who
> >> is quite comfortable with the use of force on behalf of the United
> >> States."
>
> >> On 5/29/12, Leader of 71 <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > [image: The New York Times] <http://www.nytimes.com/>
> >> > <http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=www...>
>
> >> > ------------------------------
> >> > May 29, 2012
> >> > Secret 'Kill List' Proves a Test of Obama's Principles and WillBy JO
> >> > BECKER<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/jo_becke...>
> >> >  and SCOTT
> >> > SHANE<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/scott_sh...>
>
> >> > WASHINGTON — This was the enemy, served up in the latest chart from the
> >> > intelligence agencies: 15 Qaeda suspects in Yemen with Western ties.
> >> > The
> >> > mug shots and brief biographies resembled a high school yearbook
> >> > layout.
> >> > Several were Americans. Two were teenagers, including a girl who looked
> >> > even younger than her 17 years.
>
> >> > President
> >> > Obama<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_o...>,
>
> >> > overseeing the regular Tuesday counterterrorism meeting of two dozen
> >> > security officials in the White House Situation Room, took a moment to
> >> > study the faces. It was Jan. 19, 2010, the end of a first year in
> >> > office
> >> > punctuated by terrorist plots and culminating in a brush with
> >> > catastrophe
> >> > over Detroit on Christmas Day, a reminder that a successful attack
> >> > could
> >> > derail his presidency. Yet he faced adversaries without uniforms, often
> >> > indistinguishable from the civilians around them.
>
> >> > "How old are these people?" he asked, according to two officials
> >> > present.
> >> > "If they are starting to use children," he said of Al
> >> > Qaeda<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/a...>,
>
> >> > "we are moving into a whole different phase."
>
> >> > It was not a theoretical question: Mr. Obama has placed himself at the
> >> > helm
>
> >> > of a top secret "nominations" process to designate terrorists for kill
> >> > or
> >> > capture, of which the capture part has become largely theoretical. He
> >> > had
> >> > vowed to align the fight against Al Qaeda with American values; the
> >> > chart,
> >> > introducing people whose deaths he might soon be asked to order,
> >> > underscored just what a moral and legal conundrum this could be.
>
> >> > Mr. Obama is the liberal law professor who campaigned against the Iraq
> >> > war
> >> > and torture, and then insisted on approving every new name on an
> >> > expanding
> >> > "kill list," poring over terrorist suspects' biographies on what one
> >> > official calls the macabre "baseball cards" of an unconventional war.
> >> > When
> >> > a rare opportunity for a
> >> > drone<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/unmann...>
> >> > strike
> >> > at a top terrorist arises — but his family is with him — it is the
> >> > president who has reserved to himself the final moral calculation.
>
> >> > "He is determined that he will make these decisions about how far and
> >> > wide
> >> > these operations will go," said Thomas E. Donilon, his national
> >> > security
> >> > adviser. "His view is that he's responsible for the position of the
> >> > United
> >> > States in the world." He added, "He's determined to keep the tether
> >> > pretty
> >> > short."
>
> >> > Nothing else in Mr. Obama's first term has baffled liberal supporters
> >> > and
> >> > confounded conservative critics alike as his aggressive
> >> > counterterrorism
> >> > record. His actions have often remained inscrutable, obscured by
> >> > awkward
> >> > secrecy rules, polarized political commentary and the president's own
> >> > deep
> >> > reserve.
>
> >> > In interviews with The New York Times, three dozen of his current and
> >> > former advisers described Mr. Obama's evolution since taking on the
> >> > role,
> >> > without precedent in presidential history, of personally overseeing the
> >> > shadow war with Al Qaeda.
>
> >> > They describe a paradoxical leader who shunned the legislative
> >> > deal-making
> >> > required to close the detention facility at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba, but
> >> > approves lethal action without hand-wringing. While he was adamant
> >> > about
> >> > narrowing the fight and improving relations with the Muslim world, he
> >> > has
> >> > followed the metastasizing enemy into new and dangerous lands. When he
> >> > applies his lawyering skills to counterterrorism, it is usually to
> >> > enable,
> >> > not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al Qaeda — even when it
> >> > comes
>
> >> > to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told
> >> > colleagues was "an easy one."
>
> >> > His first term has seen private warnings from top officials about a
> >> > "Whac-A-Mole" approach to counterterrorism; the invention of a new
> >> > category
>
> >> > of aerial attack following complaints of careless targeting; and
> >> > presidential acquiescence in a formula for counting civilian deaths
> >> > that
> >> > some officials think is skewed to produce low numbers.
>
> >> > The administration's failure to forge a clear detention policy has
> >> > created
> >> > the impression among some members of Congress of a take-no-prisoners
> >> > policy. And Mr. Obama's ambassador to Pakistan, Cameron P. Munter, has
> >> > complained to colleagues that the
> >> > C.I.A.<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/c/c...>'s
>
> >> > strikes drive American policy there, saying "he didn't realize his main
> >> > job
>
> >> > was to kill people," a colleague said.
>
> >> > Beside the president at every step is his counterterrorism adviser, John
> >> > O.
>
> >> > Brennan, who is variously compared by colleagues to a dogged police
> >> > detective, tracking
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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