Re: Here are some facts about the debt and the deficit and Bush and Obama

No kidding!

How come so much SPAM?

I joined the  other group, but used a semi-retired S/N. That keeps my mail orderly...except that I opted to not receive any mail. LOL

Let us know if you join, too.

 

In a message dated 5/30/2012 11:25:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnk05@aol.com writes:

HArd to imagine, gicen the banal spammers. L

-----Original Message-----
From: mg <mgkelson@yahoo.com>
To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 6:25 am
Subject: Re: Here are some facts about the debt and the deficit and Bush and Obama

"soc.retirement" is another newsgroup that is similar to this one in  many respects. I wouldn't say that it is any better, though. In fact,  it might be worse.    On May 29, 2:59 pm, lynn...@aol.com wrote:  > If you have another newsgroup that is decent, would you mind if I considered   joining it?  This one is clearly under siege.  >  > -----Original Message-----  > From: mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com>  > To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>  > Sent: Mon, May 28, 2012 10:07 pm  > Subject: Re: Here are some facts about the debt and the deficit and Bush and   Obama  >  > It's not a good situation and I've commented about it before, along  > with some other things on another newsgroup. With the unions being  > mostly gone, Democrats have to look elsewhere for campaign  > contributions. Personally, I'm not sure if we'll ever see another true-  > blue, traditional Democrat ever win the White House again unless we  > get some sort of serious campaign reform, which is unlikely.  >  > On May 28, 7:11 pm, lynn...@aol.com wrote:  > > The salient point is that TARP was a Bush initiative. My concern is the  > apparent symbiosis between the white house and golden sacks.  >  > > Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T  >  > > mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:  > > >I know there have been some congressional proposals to amend TARP, but  > > >I don't know if any of them have passed. It seems like I remember  > > >something about the idea of converting the money owed to the  > > >government to common stock, but I don't know if that ever happened.  >  > > >One can get lost quickly and not be able to see the forest for the  > > >trees when talking about a fantasy Obama spree. The question I have  > > >been asking right wingers for a long time now, though, is to tell me  > > >specifically where he spent all that money if they believe he has been  > > >on a spending spree, and of course they never can, except for blaming  > > >the stimulus for everything.  >  > > >On May 28, 4:25 pm, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:  > > >> MG, Obama made an amendment to TARP  >  > > >> On 5/28/12, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > > >> > The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) was signed into law by George  > > >> > W. Bush on October 3, 2008. Obama didn't become president until Jan.  > > >> > 20, 2009.  >  > > >> > On May 28, 12:12 pm, jgg1000a <jgg1...@hotmail.com> wrote:  > > >> >> Tarp was a joint product of Bush and Obama...  >  > > >> >> On May 26, 5:02 pm, lynn...@aol.com wrote:  >  > > >> >> > Lew evidently has some memory problems...TARP and the early stimulus  > > >> >> > packages were BUSH initiatives, just a NAFTA belonged to his daddy.   L  >  > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----  > > >> >> > From: mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com>  > > >> >> > To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>  > > >> >> > Sent: Sat, May 26, 2012 11:34 am  > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Here are some facts about the debt and the deficit and  > Bush  > > >> >> > and Obama  >  > > >> >> > As I said in my original post, most economists agree that the   one-time  > > >> >> > spending for the stimulus  > > >> >> > was necessary and  > > >> >> > beneficial.http://www.advisorone.com/2012/02/17/the-stimulus-three-years-on-did-...  >  > > >> >> > In addition, the consensus among nonideological economists is that   the  > > >> >> > measures taken by Obama and the Federal Reserve prevented the  > > >> >> > recession from becoming worse or even turning into a second Great  > > >> >> > Depression.http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/fact-check-romney-on-th...  >  > > >> >> > On May 26, 5:08 am, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:  > > >> >> > > Bush is not running for president.  >  > > >> >> > > Obama solved nothing and the country became worse under Obama.  >  > > >> >> > > TIME FOR A CHANGE !  >  > > >> >> > > On May 26, 3:47 am, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > > >> >> > > > The costs ballooned before Obama took office. As I said, the CBO  > > >> >> > > > estimated that the deficit for fiscal year 2009 (10/1/2008 -  > > >> >> > > > 9/30/2009) would be $1.2 trillion before Obama was even sworn in  > as  > > >> >> > > > president.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/27/barack...  >  > > >> >> > > > If you look at the graph at the following website, you can see  > > >> >> > > > exactly  > > >> >> > > > what caused the $1.2 trillion deficit in 2009 and subsequent  > years.  > > >> >> > > > Note that for 2009 a lot of it was because of the economic crash  > > >> >> > > > and  > > >> >> > > > the TARP bailout. Here's a quote from the referenced article:  >  > > >> >> > > > "The recession battered the budget, driving down tax revenues   and  > > >> >> > > > swelling outlays for unemployment insurance, food stamps, and  > other  > > >> >> > > > safety-net programs.[3] Using CBO's August 2008 projections as a  > > >> >> > > > benchmark, we calculate that the changed economic outlook alone  > > >> >> > > > accounts for over $400 billion of the deficit each year in 2009  > > >> >> > > > through 2011 and slightly smaller amounts in subsequent years.  > > >> >> > > > Those  > > >> >> > > > effects persist; even in 2018, the deterioration in the economy  > > >> >> > > > since  > > >> >> > > > the summer of 2008 will account for over $300 billion in added  > > >> >> > > > deficits, much of it in the form of additional debt-service  > costs."  >  > > >> >> > > >http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3490  >  > > >> >> > > > On May 25, 8:39 am, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:  >  > > >> >> > > > > Bush never signed a 2009 budget.  Just Obama has never signed   a  > > >> >> > > > > 2010,  > > >> >> > > > > 2011, 2012 nor 2013 budget.  >  > > >> >> > > > > Why is Obama over-spending income by $1.5 trillion dollars   while  > > >> >> > > > > Bush  > > >> >> > > > > never over spent income by more than $600 Bilion dollars with  > the  > > >> >> > > > > exact same wars?  Bush was fighting those wars for 5 and 6  > years.  > > >> >> > > > >  Al  > > >> >> > > > > the sudden the costs balloned when Obama shows up?  >  > > >> >> > > > > On May 25, 10:15 am, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > > >> >> > > > > > The cost of the wars will continue to add up long after they  > are  > > >> >> > > > > > over.  > > >> >> > > > > > By one estimate the total cost will be $4  > > >> >> > > > > > trillion.http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/much-wars-cost-report-says-4-tril...  >  > > >> >> > > > > > The budget for Oct 2008 to Sept. 2009 began as a spending  > > >> >> > > > > > request by  > > >> >> > > > > > Bush, who had been in office 8 years, and was signed by   Obama  > on  > > >> >> > > > > > Mar  > > >> >> > > > > > 12, 2009, which was about 50 days after he took office. If  > > >> >> > > > > > someone  > > >> >> > > > > > plants a time bomb, he doesn't have to sign it to make it go  > > >> >> > > > > > off.  >  > > >> >> > > > > > It's very true that Obama has failed to end the war that   Bush  > > >> >> > > > > > started.  > > >> >> > > > > > However, it's also true that it's easier to start a war than  > it  > > >> >> > > > > > is to  > > >> >> > > > > > end it.  >  > > >> >> > > > > > Obama hasn't spent very much money that I know of except for  > > >> >> > > > > > the  > > >> >> > > > > > stimulus and except for continuing the policies that were in  > > >> >> > > > > > place  > > >> >> > > > > > when he took office. In fact, when you think about it, what  > > >> >> > > > > > significant amounts of money has he spent, except for the  > > >> >> > > > > > stimulus  > > >> >> > > > > > money and what money did George Bush spent and what did he  > spend  > > >> >> > > > > > it  > > >> >> > > > > > on?  >  > > >> >> > > > > > On May 25, 6:55 am, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > How did Iraq explin so much deficit?  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > The Itraq War only cost about $1 trillionfrom beginning to  > > >> >> > > > > > > end. - Same  > > >> >> > > > > > > as the Styimulus that went to the unions.  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > Afhanistan is "Obama's War."  The War we need to fight in  > > >> >> > > > > > > Obama's  > > >> >> > > > > > > words.  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > P.S.: Bush never signed a budget for 2009.  All the   spending  > > >> >> > > > > > > in 2009  > > >> >> > > > > > > is Obama'spending.  Obama has been over spending his   income  > by  > > >> >> > > > > > > about  > > >> >> > > > > > > $1,5 trillion each year.  The most Bush ever over spent   his  > > >> >> > > > > > > income is  > > >> >> > > > > > > about $400 Billion. - About 2 1/2 timnes the Bush rate of  > > >> >> > > > > > > overspending. in  Bush's worst year.  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > On May 25, 8:44 am, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > > In doing a little bit of research, I came up with the  > > >> >> > > > > > > > following  > > >> >> > > > > > > > information which appears to be completely accurate:  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > > 1. Before Obama was even sworn in as president, the CBO  > > >> >> > > > > > > > estimated  > > >> >> > that  > > >> >> > > > > > > > the deficit for for fiscal year 2009 (10/1/2008 -  > 9/30/2009)  > > >> >> > > > > > > > would  > > >> >> > be  > > >> >> > > > > > > > $1.2  > > >> >> > > > > > > > trillion.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/27/barack...  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > > 2. Only a relatively small amount of the stimulus money  > was  > > >> >> > > > > > > > spent in  > > >> >> > > > > > > > fiscal year 2009. The stimulus didn't really begin to   ramp  > > >> >> > > > > > > > up until  > > >> >> > Q1  > > >> >> > > > > > > > of  > > >> >> > > > > > > > 2010.http://keithhennessey.com/2009/06/03/will-the-stimulus-come-too-late/  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > > 3. Most economists agree that the one-time spending for  > the  > > >> >> > > > > > > > stimulus  > > >> >> > > > > > > > was necessary and  > > >> >> > > > > > > > beneficial.http://www.advisorone.com/2012/02/17/the-stimulus-three-years-on-did-...  >  > > >> >> > > > > > > > 4. The growth in government spending under President   Obama  > > >> >> > > > > > > > has been  > > >> >> > > > > > > > slower than during the Bush and Reagan administrations.  > > >> >> > > > > > > > Federal  > > >> >> > > > > > > > spending is lower now than it was when Obama took   office.  > > >> >> > > > > > > > The so  > > >> >> > > > > > > > called Obama spending binge never  > > >> >> > > > > > > > happened.http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/19/446990/obama-bush-reagan-......  >  > ...  >  > read more »    --   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Open   Debate Political Forum IMHO" group.  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