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Monday, December 31, 2012

[LST] 2013- time for a societal dialogue?

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Citycitybangbang/entry/2013-time-for-a-societal-dialogue

 

 

2013: Time for a societal dialogue?

Santosh Desai 
30 December 2012, 07:06 PM IST

It is not easy to sum up 2012 without a deep feeling of despair. If 2011 was the year in which some fundamental structural issues with our political system were exposed, 2012 seems to have not only deepened our  understanding  of those shortcomings, but also made us alive to the deepening fissures in society. This was a terrible year in terms of crimes against women with the brutal gang rape of the young girl in Delhi and the  subsequent  callousness  and insensitivity shown by the political class, underlined the fact that gender discrimination is deeply embedded into the societal fabric.

If one were to try and tease out some patterns underlying the events of this year, they might broadly fall under two, somewhat related heads. For one, we are beginning to see the tentative first steps towards the formation of the idea of citizenry; the notion that as citizens there exists a reciprocal responsibility to not only respond to one’s immediate environment, but also play an active role in managing it. Over the last couple of years, the  interest in directly influencing modes of governance has grown; democracy as a practice is increasingly detaching itself from the narrow idea of elections. The political class has not understood this change; one has only to  look  at  the fact that in the recent protests in Delhi, virtually no elected representatives, not even local politicians, were involved. When a movement that holds the nation’s attention with such intensity fails to stir  the  representatives of people even a little bit, the schism between citizenry and the polity can be deemed to be enduring.


The other pattern that has emerged is the deepening divide in society. If the gang rape case underlines the deeply misogynistic character of society even today, 2012 saw many incidents that underline the struggle to reconcile the many contrasting pulls and pressures that have followed in the wake of sweeping change over the last few years. It is now clear that the new came without any accompanying compass, and asked questions of the old that  it  did  not have answers to. The larger question of change penetrating beneath the skin of the modern, into our everyday lives, and finding genuine and widespread acceptance is the really big one that we are left grappling with.


A lot has been said about the sickness that lies within society and the need to change mindsets. The trouble is that society cannot be hectored into change, no matter how just the cause. Social change needs a whole  ecosystem  of actions, but above all it needs a real dialogue. We have seen unprecedented change in India that has come without any mechanism to justify itself or explain its implications. A small section of society has embraced enormous change and now looks at the  rest  of India with uncomprehending and often judgmental eyes. No intermediary mechanisms exist that would interpret this change and find place for it in the traditional way of life. The state does  not  function  adequately  nor  do  its institutions offer clear benchmarks, the market creates a sense of surface modernity while simultaneously reinforcing existing prejudices, and traditional institutions like the panchayat and religion have not  really  done  their bit in making the new intelligible to the old, often acting to the contrary.


Along with pushing for comprehensive reform that makes the legal framework more effective both in concept and delivery, it is also important to carry out a sustained societal  dialogue.  This  is  not  the  same  as  one  section lecturing to another or ‘educating’ them from a superior vantage point, but a genuine dialogue between peers that addresses each other’s anxieties and aspirations. So many Indians are experiencing things for  the  first  time  in their lives. New freedoms need new boundaries, which in turn requires a framework that is relevant for the times. The old sources of authority that drew boundaries cannot make sense of the new,  and  no  institutions  are  either facilitating a dialogue or stepping in to fill the void. The problems facing society have a lot to do with old mindsets being amplified by new freedoms, rather than being re-defined by them.


The fact is that change is happening across the board in India. Women, in particular are experiencing new freedoms and reveling in a greater sense of confidence and control that they increasingly have over their  own  lives.  The need is to harness this and convert it into a deeper, more enduring reality. New conventions need to be formed; a new vocabulary of change needs to be established. The conversation needs to move away  from  the  extremes  to  the centre, and the progress made, even if partial, needs to be welcomed and encouraged. Platforms that allow for people, not just politicians or commentators, to communicate on a broad range of issues, are vital  to  fostering  such dialogue. So much has been said about India’s economic progress but very little is being communicated about the social change that has been embraced nor have been any real conversations about the questions that have  been  thrown up as a result.


There was a time when the sense of right and wrong was received as a legacy from the past. The definitions were by no means perfect but clarity certainly prevailed about was deemed desirable and what was not. As the past  loosens its grip on us and we emerge as individuals that voluntarily organise ourselves as citizens sharing a common present and shaping a common future, we need to develop our own compass. The time to act exclusively as critics observing our lives must give way to becoming participants in determining not just the course of our life, but also play a role in  framing the rules that govern it. And it is only when this compass has broad agreement across all sections of society that a common moral and ethical framework can get developed. For that there is no alternative to  putting  pressure on institutions to draw and guard the outer boundaries of behaviour and to negotiate through mutual dialogue, all that lies in between.

 

 

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Saurav Datta

 

Mobile: +91-9930966518

Twitter : SauravDatta29

"To those who believe in resistance , who live between hope and impatience and have learned the perils of being unreasonable.

To those who understand enough to be afraid, and yet retain their fury"

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2013 :)



Wish you a very Happy, Healthy & Prosperous 


New Year 2013 
  
 
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cid:image003.gif@01C96B5A.12D901502013cid:image003.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
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cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Happiness deep down within. cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Serenity with each sunrise. cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Success in each facet of your life. cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Family beside you. cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Close and caring friends. cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Health, inside you. cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Love that never ends. cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Special memories of all the yesterdays. cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150A bright today with much to be thankful for. cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150A path that leads to beautiful tomorrows. cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
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cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Appreciation of all the wonderful things about you. cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
 
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cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150Wishing you lots of Happiness, Success, Love n Good healthcid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
 
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cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150GOOD LUCK for EVERYTHING...cid:image005.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150 cid:image006.gif@01C96B5A.12D90150
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¥@Ŧi§ђ

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RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

I guess that's why I can get so vitriolic at times.I'm way passed the point of trusting politicians promises.I'm saying that the party in power had better push the agenda of the voters who voted in the majority.Compromise for the some part should have been buried with Henry Clay.
 

From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:27:25 -0600

Frankly, I think we have a totally dysfunctional government at this point and neither side seems to have the welfare of America as a goal.  I'll leave it to the historians to determine the fault. At this point, how can you trust anything either side promises?

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:55 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

 

after we go  over the , "Fiscal Cliff" , The Dems are going to reintroduce tax cuts for those that make less than 250g's a years. Do you think that the Republicans will vote against that?
 


From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:36:26 -0600

Greg's right. 

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:30 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

 

Greg, that's the rumor.
 


Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 08:57:55 -0800
From: greg.vincent@yahoo.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

"If you make less than $250k, you will not see your taxes go up one single dime"

Suckers

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RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

Frankly, I think we have a totally dysfunctional government at this point and neither side seems to have the welfare of America as a goal.  I’ll leave it to the historians to determine the fault. At this point, how can you trust anything either side promises?

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:55 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

 

after we go  over the , "Fiscal Cliff" , The Dems are going to reintroduce tax cuts for those that make less than 250g's a years. Do you think that the Republicans will vote against that?
 


From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:36:26 -0600

Greg’s right. 

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:30 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

 

Greg, that's the rumor.
 


Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 08:57:55 -0800
From: greg.vincent@yahoo.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Ring in the New Year with your New Healthcare Taxes - Liberals? - Enjoy !

"If you make less than $250k, you will not see your taxes go up one single dime"

Suckers

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RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

Just like W did twice during his reign.That's happened since befroe even Chrlie was born. Nice try though, even though I believe that Congress should work for free, just because they love the USA!
 

From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:14:53 -0600

PS, don't forget to thank President Obama for signing an EO raising the salaries of Biden, various cabinet members, some czars, I'm sure and our Congress critters.  Damned good place to put all those new taxes he expects to rake in isn't it.  Meanwhile he and Michelle wave their royal handkerchiefs at you and tell you to "eat cake, it's good for you, but it must be low calorie cake with no frosting".

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lynnk05@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:22 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

 

Yes,Ttom. Sometimes change happens. It's not always a bad thing. We have not paid enough taxes over the last 10 years - largely thanks to Dumbass W and his unfunded war. 
You think the wars were necessary. I don't. Nonetheless, the money was borrowed and spent and now it's time to pay the piper and you deny dancing? If you wanted the wars, it's time to pony up. I didn't want the war and  Ihave to pony up, too. Welcome to reality.

 

If you ever figure out how big the hoax of supply side econonics is, and how we really didn't need a war in the middle east, and that we should stay out of Africa...you will be made as hell.

 

I'm happy to be a progressive. I doln't want to goi back to the dark ages...why do you? L

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom <boldsaber@gmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 12:31 pm
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

Why is it that leftist always chalk up recognition of threat and adverse conditions and the motivation to do something about it as fear?  No Larry, I'm not afraid, I know how to live in less than optimal conditions and am prepared to do so with as much comfort as possible given the conditions. Will you do as well? How will you charge up your volt? By the way, it's far too late to stop sequestration, it's a fact at 0001 tonight.  I realize that you and others of your ideological bent believe that it's nothing and will have no impact on your lives, unfortunately your capacity for burying your head in the sand will not stop it from having an effect on you. The cliff diving is just icing on the cake but I'd still urge you to get your little statue of Obama or his picture and start praying to him to save you, I mean, he's done such a great job at that task already, right?

 

I earned my so-called "welfare check" by serving my country, Larry.  Have you earned your retirement nest egg yet? Still working?  Ask your boss how long you've got left.

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:29 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

 

Afraid? Tom. let's see that "Warrior Spine " that you like to crow about! I'll be willing to bet your monthly welfare check that nothing's going to happen. Shit, the media can spew all that they want. The Mayan Calendar  thing had a better chance of happening that any "fiscal cliff " calamity, however , keep posting your paranoid B.S. Tom , I'm sure that you can find some takers here. The most likely scenario is that one or both parties will cave in and compromise, their collective ball sacks will crawl back up into their abdomens or what I'd like to see is that the party that holds power in two of the three branches of government shoves the electoral majorities agenda up the "Loyal" opposition parties ass.If the voters don't like it , then there will be an election in just 4 short years.
 


From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:23:34 -0600

It's like I said, they can claim that it's the fault of the GOP all they want.  Most of us know the truth and that the Senate Dems and Obama have been playing with themselves for the last four years and are fully responsible for the cliff diving and worst for the sequestration which starts tonight when the ball goes down in Times Square.  That particular Genie cannot be put back in the bottle quickly nor easily.  At 0001 hours, 1 January 2013, I would rate US combat readiness at C-4.  (Unit Status Reports rate units from C-1 to C-5, C-4 is the last one from which a unit can be eventually resurrected as a functional combat asset WITH MASSIVE infusions of personnel, equipment, and training, C-5 is generally reserved for units which are slated to "lose their flag".

 

My paranoia is shared by most in the military community. The impact will also be seen in new recruitment as the new taxes and other reductions WILL make the military among the least competitive job markets and the story about how all the above will impact on military families is already getting out.  It seems that Obama and his horde of raving progressives will not be happy with just the destruction of America but are intent on a scorched earth policy as well.

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pred544@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:50 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/30/2012 9:30:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, lynnk05@aol.com writes:

Backwards. Normally the executive brings his budget to the speaker who forwards it to appropriations. At the same time cbo prepares their version and sends it to appropriations. Then appropriations and ways and means finds other funding.  Notice that the president is busy with foreign affairs. The Congress has abdicated. Boehner has revealed his total incompetence. He can't even keep his caucas in town.
 
The House has submitted 4 budgets to the Senate in the last 4 years, Reid refuses to allow a vote. Obamba has sent three straight budgets to the Senate that Reid and the Dems have voted down 99-1 or 100-0. Only the Senate side of Congress has abdicated.

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RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

PS, don’t forget to thank President Obama for signing an EO raising the salaries of Biden, various cabinet members, some czars, I’m sure and our Congress critters.  Damned good place to put all those new taxes he expects to rake in isn’t it.  Meanwhile he and Michelle wave their royal handkerchiefs at you and tell you to “eat cake, it’s good for you, but it must be low calorie cake with no frosting”.

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lynnk05@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:22 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

 

Yes,Ttom. Sometimes change happens. It's not always a bad thing. We have not paid enough taxes over the last 10 years - largely thanks to Dumbass W and his unfunded war. 
You think the wars were necessary. I don't. Nonetheless, the money was borrowed and spent and now it's time to pay the piper and you deny dancing? If you wanted the wars, it's time to pony up. I didn't want the war and  Ihave to pony up, too. Welcome to reality.

 

If you ever figure out how big the hoax of supply side econonics is, and how we really didn't need a war in the middle east, and that we should stay out of Africa...you will be made as hell.

 

I'm happy to be a progressive. I doln't want to goi back to the dark ages...why do you? L

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom <boldsaber@gmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 12:31 pm
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

Why is it that leftist always chalk up recognition of threat and adverse conditions and the motivation to do something about it as fear?  No Larry, I’m not afraid, I know how to live in less than optimal conditions and am prepared to do so with as much comfort as possible given the conditions. Will you do as well? How will you charge up your volt? By the way, it’s far too late to stop sequestration, it’s a fact at 0001 tonight.  I realize that you and others of your ideological bent believe that it’s nothing and will have no impact on your lives, unfortunately your capacity for burying your head in the sand will not stop it from having an effect on you. The cliff diving is just icing on the cake but I’d still urge you to get your little statue of Obama or his picture and start praying to him to save you, I mean, he’s done such a great job at that task already, right?

 

I earned my so-called “welfare check” by serving my country, Larry.  Have you earned your retirement nest egg yet? Still working?  Ask your boss how long you’ve got left.

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Talbot
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:29 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

 

Afraid? Tom. let's see that "Warrior Spine " that you like to crow about! I'll be willing to bet your monthly welfare check that nothing's going to happen. Shit, the media can spew all that they want. The Mayan Calendar  thing had a better chance of happening that any "fiscal cliff " calamity, however , keep posting your paranoid B.S. Tom , I'm sure that you can find some takers here. The most likely scenario is that one or both parties will cave in and compromise, their collective ball sacks will crawl back up into their abdomens or what I'd like to see is that the party that holds power in two of the three branches of government shoves the electoral majorities agenda up the "Loyal" opposition parties ass.If the voters don't like it , then there will be an election in just 4 short years.
 


From: boldsaber@gmail.com
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:23:34 -0600

It’s like I said, they can claim that it’s the fault of the GOP all they want.  Most of us know the truth and that the Senate Dems and Obama have been playing with themselves for the last four years and are fully responsible for the cliff diving and worst for the sequestration which starts tonight when the ball goes down in Times Square.  That particular Genie cannot be put back in the bottle quickly nor easily.  At 0001 hours, 1 January 2013, I would rate US combat readiness at C-4.  (Unit Status Reports rate units from C-1 to C-5, C-4 is the last one from which a unit can be eventually resurrected as a functional combat asset WITH MASSIVE infusions of personnel, equipment, and training, C-5 is generally reserved for units which are slated to “lose their flag”.

 

My paranoia is shared by most in the military community. The impact will also be seen in new recruitment as the new taxes and other reductions WILL make the military among the least competitive job markets and the story about how all the above will impact on military families is already getting out.  It seems that Obama and his horde of raving progressives will not be happy with just the destruction of America but are intent on a scorched earth policy as well.

 

Tom                  

"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,

The Shit has hit the Fan"

"Hiding in Honduras"

- Warren Zevon

 

From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pred544@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:50 AM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Since We Care So Much About Our Children, How About If We Don't Bankrupt ...

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/30/2012 9:30:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, lynnk05@aol.com writes:

Backwards. Normally the executive brings his budget to the speaker who forwards it to appropriations. At the same time cbo prepares their version and sends it to appropriations. Then appropriations and ways and means finds other funding.  Notice that the president is busy with foreign affairs. The Congress has abdicated. Boehner has revealed his total incompetence. He can't even keep his caucas in town.
 
The House has submitted 4 budgets to the Senate in the last 4 years, Reid refuses to allow a vote. Obamba has sent three straight budgets to the Senate that Reid and the Dems have voted down 99-1 or 100-0. Only the Senate side of Congress has abdicated.

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