Re: Wind and Solar Energy has been used by man since the Earth was created and this is all the progress we have made thus far. Fossil fuels we have been using only 162 years.

If I was president, I wouldn't put Federal funds in any commercial
venture.

That's what the people are for - not the government.


----

Lew, how if it was a loan with interest paid back in full in five years.



On 5/27/12, lew <lewcoop@aol.com> wrote:
> If I was president, I wouldn't put Federal funds in any commercial
> venture.
>
> That's what the people are for - not the government.
>
> On May 27, 11:23 am, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> LEW, if you are the president would you put federal funds into
>> M.I.T.'s discovery.
>>
>> I WOULD!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> On 5/27/12, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > When/if there is a natural - real demand , we shall convert.
>>
>> > It can't come under the day dreams of a Community Organizer.
>>
>> > On May 27, 8:04 am, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Entropy is a thermodynamic property that can be used to determine the
>> >> energy not available for work in a thermodynamic process, such as in
>> >> energy conversion ...
>>
>> >> -----
>>
>> >> how much is not available 5%
>>
>> >> okay i read the article, partly ;o)
>>
>> >> "Not only is this new chemical system less expensive than the earlier
>> >> ruthenium-containing compound, but it also is vastly more efficient at
>> >> storing energy in a given amount of space — about 10,000 times higher
>> >> in volumetric energy density,"
>>
>> >> On 5/26/12, geoffrey theist <gtheist...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > yes unfortunately it still leads to entropy. all energy is converted
>> >> > to
>> >> > heat sorry earl hate to be the bearer of bad news.
>>
>> >> > On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 8:17 PM, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Enjoy the read GEO ;o)
>>
>> >> >>http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/update-energy-storage-0713.html?tm...
>>
>> >> >> Research update: New way to store sun's heat
>>
>> >> >> Photo - Image courtesy of Grossman/Kolpak
>> >> >> Modified carbon nanotubes can store solar energy indefinitely, then
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> recharged by exposure to the sun.
>> >> >> David L. Chandler, MIT News Office
>> >> >> July 13, 2011
>> >> >> A novel application of carbon nanotubes, developed by MIT
>> >> >> researchers,
>> >> >> shows promise as an innovative approach to storing solar energy for
>> >> >> use whenever it's needed.
>>
>> >> >> Storing the sun's heat in chemical form — rather than converting it
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> electricity or storing the heat itself in a heavily insulated
>> >> >> container — has significant advantages, since in principle the
>> >> >> chemical material can be stored for long periods of time without
>> >> >> losing any of its stored energy. The problem with that approach has
>> >> >> been that until now the chemicals needed to perform this conversion
>> >> >> and storage either degraded within a few cycles, or included the
>> >> >> element ruthenium, which is rare and expensive.
>>
>> >> >> Last year, MIT associate professor Jeffrey Grossman and four
>> >> >> co-authors figured out exactly how fulvalene diruthenium — known to
>> >> >> scientists as the best chemical for reversibly storing solar
>> >> >> energy,
>> >> >> since it did not degrade — was able to accomplish this feat.
>> >> >> Grossman
>> >> >> said at the time that better understanding this process could make
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> easier to search for other compounds, made of abundant and
>> >> >> inexpensive
>> >> >> materials, which could be used in the same way.
>>
>> >> >> Now, he and postdoc Alexie Kolpak have succeeded in doing just that.
>> >> >> A
>> >> >> paper describing their new findings has just been published online
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> the journal Nano Letters, and will appear in print in a forthcoming
>> >> >> issue.
>>
>> >> >> The new material found by Grossman and Kolpak is made using carbon
>> >> >> nanotubes, tiny tubular structures of pure carbon, in combination
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> a compound called azobenzene. The resulting molecules, produced
>> >> >> using
>> >> >> nanoscale templates to shape and constrain their physical
>> >> >> structure,
>> >> >> gain "new properties that aren't available" in the separate
>> >> >> materials,
>> >> >> says Grossman, the Carl Richard Soderberg Associate Professor of
>> >> >> Power
>> >> >> Engineering.
>>
>> >> >> Not only is this new chemical system less expensive than the
>> >> >> earlier
>> >> >> ruthenium-containing compound, but it also is vastly more efficient
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> storing energy in a given amount of space — about 10,000 times
>> >> >> higher
>> >> >> in volumetric energy density, Kolpak says — making its energy
>> >> >> density
>> >> >> comparable to lithium-ion batteries. By using nanofabrication
>> >> >> methods,
>> >> >> "you can control [the molecules'] interactions, increasing the
>> >> >> amount
>> >> >> of energy they can store and the length of time for which they can
>> >> >> store it — and most importantly, you can control both
>> >> >> independently,"
>> >> >> she says.
>>
>> >> >> Thermo-chemical storage of solar energy uses a molecule whose
>> >> >> structure changes when exposed to sunlight, and can remain stable
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> that form indefinitely. Then, when nudged by a stimulus — a
>> >> >> catalyst,
>> >> >> a small temperature change, a flash of light — it can quickly snap
>> >> >> back to its other form, releasing its stored energy in a burst of
>> >> >> heat. Grossman describes it as creating a rechargeable heat battery
>> >> >> with a long shelf life, like a conventional battery.
>>
>> >> >> Image courtesy of Grossman/Kolpak
>> >> >> One of the great advantages of the new approach to harnessing solar
>> >> >> energy, Grossman says, is that it simplifies the process by
>> >> >> combining
>> >> >> energy harvesting and storage into a single step. "You've got a
>> >> >> material that both converts and stores energy," he says. "It's
>> >> >> robust,
>> >> >> it doesn't degrade, and it's cheap." One limitation, however, is
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> while this process is useful for heating applications, to produce
>> >> >> electricity would require another conversion step, using
>> >> >> thermoelectric devices or producing steam to run a generator.
>>
>> >> >> While the new work shows the energy-storage capability of a
>> >> >> specific
>> >> >> type of molecule — azobenzene-functionalized carbon nanotubes —
>> >> >> Grossman says the way the material was designed involves "a general
>> >> >> concept that can be applied to many new materials." Many of these
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> already been synthesized by other researchers for different
>> >> >> applications, and would simply need to have their properties
>> >> >> fine-tuned for solar thermal storage.
>>
>> >> >> The key to controlling solar thermal storage is an energy barrier
>> >> >> separating the two stable states the molecule can adopt; the
>> >> >> detailed
>> >> >> understanding of that barrier was central to Grossman's earlier
>> >> >> research on fulvalene dirunthenium, accounting for its long-term
>> >> >> stability. Too low a barrier, and the molecule would return too
>> >> >> easily
>> >> >> to its "uncharged" state, failing to store energy for long periods;
>> >> >> if
>> >> >> the barrier were too high, it would not be able to easily release
>> >> >> its
>> >> >> energy when needed. "The barrier has to be optimized," Grossman
>> >> >> says.
>>
>> >> >> Already, the team is "very actively looking at a range of new
>> >> >> materials," he says. While they have already identified the one
>> >> >> very
>> >> >> promising material described in this paper, he says, "I see this as
>> >> >> the tip of the iceberg. We're pretty jazzed up about it."
>>
>> >> >> Yosuke Kanai, assistant professor of chemistry at the University of
>> >> >> North Carolina at Chapel Hill, says "the idea of reversibly storing
>> >> >> solar energy in chemical bonds is gaining a lot of attention these
>> >> >> days. The novelty of this work is how these authors have shown that
>> >> >> the energy density can be significantly increased by using carbon
>> >> >> nanotubes as nanoscale templates. This innovative idea also opens
>> >> >> up
>> >> >> an interesting avenue for tailoring already-known photoactive
>> >> >> molecules for solar thermal fuels and storage in general."
>>
>> >> >> On 5/26/12, geoffrey theist <gtheist...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > how about some details?
>>
>> >> >> > On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 9:12 AM, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> M.I.T. has discovered a cheaper way to store solar energy
>>
>> >> >> >> On 5/26/12, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Why don't these Loons give up?
>>
>> >> >> >> > --
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>> ...
>>
>> read more »
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