No, I fully recognize their humanity as well as their barbarism. I detest what they’ve done to innocents and I hate with a passion those who after making a decision to commit our military to conflict then try to judge them on their humanity within the Chaos of the madness that is warfare. I hate that they do everything humanly possible to deter the military from its duty and job of going in, identifying the enemy, and destroying them as ferociously and quickly as possible and force such conflicts to last much longer that they should with the result of even more death, horror, and maiming of innocents in the long run. Rather than allowing for quick death and destruction of the enemy those people doom all to a long and slow bloodletting almost as though they gain pleasure from the additional pain and fear inflicted on ALL involved in the actual fight.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lynnk05@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:07 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
Well it is, but we express it in different ways. I just like all the t's crossed and i's dotted - and that is surely not the case with the detainees. I sometimes think you are trying to dehumanize them, to make it easier to justify the errors that were made on our side L
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom <boldsaber@gmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 29, 2012 4:01 pm
Subject: RE: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
Nope, that why I said… “Do you seriously believe that it wasn't personal for MANY of us out here?”
Truth is it should STILL BE personal for all of us.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lynnk05@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:57 PM
To: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
Now you argue like a liberal. It was personal for me...moreso than anyone else? really?
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom <boldsaber@gmail.com>
To: opendebateforum <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 29, 2012 3:52 pm
Subject: RE: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
Do you seriously believe that it wasn't personal for many of us out here? I
was originally scheduled to attend a meeting concerning bonuses for Medical
Personnel in the G1 shop ( the section that was hit at the Pentagon) that
day. The only thing that stopped me from being there was that my boss and I
had a deal that either he or I had to always be present in ST Louis to cover
the Health Services Personnel Management Directorate and his wife had called
him with an emergency at his home in San Antonio the previous week requiring
him to go home. I postponed my meeting for a week and lost three close
friends and colleagues that day. My Senior Rater LTG Timothy Maude ended up
in ICU where he died the next day.
The Bin Laden family had already disowned Usama years before 9-11.
I gave you the links from ABC and the BBC because the left always
denies News from other sources such as the Wall Street Journal or Fox News.
In this case you choose to disbelieve their reportage, in most cases had the
articles been in line with your ideological beliefs you would have accepted
them based on past performance.
Tom
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
The Shit has hit the Fan"
"Hiding in Honduras"
- Warren Zevon
-----Original Message-----
From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
[mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of OccupySpring
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:09 PM
To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO
Subject: Re: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
Tom,
9/11 was very personal to me, more-so than anyone on this forum as NY is my
home state and I have FAMILY and FRIENDS that work and live in NYC.
Why did Bush allow the Bin Laden's family to leave the country after knowing
it was his family member that ordered the attack on Sept 11?
Now, what ABC or any MSM has to say is to be taken with a grain of salt,
they are all corporate stooges.
Im glad to know you would fight to protect your family, I assume Iraqis
being human must have felt the same way.
On May 29, 3:50 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How would I feel? How about what would I do? I'd fight them with
> every weapon at my disposal. If for no other reason than Bush's
> October or November Speech about the GWOT, we had reason to attack
> Iraq. In that speech he said some phrases that have remained in th
> eminds of most Americans who remember 9-11 and the increasing
> terrorist threat to Americans since at least 1979. He said words to
> the effect that any (person or State) that supported terrorists,
> encouraged them, sheltered them, or aided them was as much of an enemy
> as the terrorists themselves. NOTE that I said after 9-11 but not
> aided in the attack of 9-11. That means that they didn't have to have
> a direct or indirect tie to that day of attack on our soil only that
> they had ties to "terrorists in some form or fashion. Here are two
> articles from among many that show that Hussein in fact did aid and abet
terrorists.
>
> Palestinians get Saddam funds
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm>
>
> Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of
> Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel.
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914
> <http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914&page=1%23.T8UoJFKwVRc>
> &page=1#.T8UoJFKwVRc
>
> Saddam Rewards Suicide Bombers' Families
>
> Tom
>
> "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
>
> The Shit has hit the Fan"
>
> "Hiding in Honduras"
>
> - Warren Zevon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of OccupySpring
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 2:11 PM
> To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO
> Subject: Re: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
>
> There was NO sufficient reason to attack Iraq and KILL 1 MILLION
> innocent lives.
>
> How would YOU feel if China decides to take our land since we owe them
> so much money, They start bombing us and killing YOUR children. How
> would you feel??
>
> On May 22, 1:13 pm, "Tom" < <mailto:boldsa...@gmail.com>
> boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What exactly would his lie have been? That he believed that
>
> > they had WMDs or that WMDs formed his rationale for invading? If
> > all
>
> > intelligence agencies worldwide with which we had cooperation said
>
> > that their best estimate was that he did and if Saddam himself
> > stated
>
> > that he did, what lie did Bush tell us? If it was that the basis
> > for
>
> > the invasion was solely the presence of WMDs that would be a
>
> > falsehood, not on Bush's head but on the heads of those who so
> > stated
>
> > since Bush's statements concerning the reason for invading listed
>
> > approximately 21 reasons and not just WMDs.
>
> > That is where any claims of culpability for violating Use of
>
> > Force requirements falls short and devolves into a political snipe
>
> > hunt rather than an honest evaluation of fact. BTW, discovery of
> > 500
>
> > drums of chemical weapons, whether they were old and present prior
> > to
>
> > 1991 or not, is the discovery of 500 drums of chemical weapons. As
>
> > for the claims that they would no longer have constituted a threat,
> > my
>
> > training and experience as an RN, as a graduate of USAMRRID's
>
> > Management of Chemical Casualties course, and as a former trained
>
> > Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical warfare defense officer tells me
> > how
>
> > ill informed those who claimed that particular point are in reality.
>
> > One of the first things I learned in NBC school was the story of the
>
> > French Farmer from Ypres, France who was clearing one of his fields
> > of
>
> > trees in 1954. He took a break and sat for a while on the stump of
>
> > one of the trees that he had felled. Three hours later he was in
> > the
>
> > local Emergency Room with Mustard gas induced chemical burns of his
>
> > buttocks and upper legs. Ypres was the site of the first use of
> > chemical
> agents by the Germans in 1915 and mustard gas was one of the agents
> used there.
>
> > Tom
>
> > "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money,
>
> > The Shit has hit the Fan"
>
> > "Hiding in Honduras"
>
> > - Warren Zevon
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: <mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
> opendebateforum@googlegroups.com
>
> > [ <mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
> mailto:opendebateforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mg
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 9:42 AM
>
> > To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO
>
> > Subject: Re: When you attack a country,INNOCENT people die and suffer.
>
> > I think if you were to ask George Bush why he invaded Iraq, he would
>
> > say "we thought they had weapons of mass destruction", which would
> > be
>
> > a lie, of course.
>
> > So what's the real reason he invaded Iraq? The short answer is
>
> > corporate profits.
>
> > On May 22, 7:48 am, OccupySpring <
> > <mailto:soprano.olivi...@gmail.com>
> soprano.olivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Bush had NO REASON to attack Iraq.
>
> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta-khdm8SJA&feature=related>http:/
> > > /www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta-khdm8SJA&feature=related
>
> > > Be sure to read the comments, remember you tube is global and
> > > people
>
> > > from many countries can make comments.
>
> > > How did you feel during 9/11, Now multiply that by a 1000 fold and
>
> > > thats what we did to the innocent people in Iraq.
>
> > --
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