Re: Here are some facts about the debt and the deficit and Bush and Obama

Here's something that's very disturbing, incidentally, and I can't
understand how something so outrageous could become law without anyone
noticing:

"US judge blocks indefinite military detention provision
updated 5/16/2012 5:49:40 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A judge on Wednesday blocked enforcement of a
recently enacted law's provision that authorizes indefinite military
detention for those deemed to have "substantially supported" al Qaeda,
the Taliban or "associated forces."

District Judge Katherine Forrest in Manhattan ruled in favor of a
group of civilian activists and journalists who said they feared being
detained under a section of the law, which was signed by U.S.
President Barack Obama in December 2011.

"In the face of what could be indeterminate military detention, due
process requires more," the judge said.

She added that it was in the public interest to reconsider the law so
that "ordinary citizens are able to understand the scope of conduct
that could subject them to indefinite military detention." [. . .]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47452408/ns/us_news/t/us-judge-blocks-indefinite-military-detention-provision/#.T8Q_FVJTCHs

On May 28, 7:08 pm, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i was/am still wondering why Obama hasn't done rebuilding bridges and
> such, i assume he's going to
>
> i still like his patience and timing while he's being criticized heavily
>
> economy wise to me he's perfection but he's too conservative when it
> comes to law, he wants individuals to have less rights, big no no for
> me
>
> i demand individuals have more rights than the feds
>
> i believe for the first time in our history the feds have more rights than us
>
> and it's all about the law, great laws great country
>
> On 5/28/12, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I know there have been some congressional proposals to amend TARP, but
> > I don't know if any of them have passed. It seems like I remember
> > something about the idea of converting the money owed to the
> > government to common stock, but I don't know if that ever happened.
>
> > One can get lost quickly and not be able to see the forest for the
> > trees when talking about a fantasy Obama spree. The question I have
> > been asking right wingers for a long time now, though, is to tell me
> > specifically where he spent all that money if they believe he has been
> > on a spending spree, and of course they never can, except for blaming
> > the stimulus for everything.
>
> > On May 28, 4:25 pm, EARL DOYLE <lesjul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> MG, Obama made an amendment to TARP
>
> >> On 5/28/12, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) was signed into law by George
> >> > W. Bush on October 3, 2008. Obama didn't become president until Jan.
> >> > 20, 2009.
>
> >> > On May 28, 12:12 pm, jgg1000a <jgg1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Tarp was a joint product of Bush and Obama...
>
> >> >> On May 26, 5:02 pm, lynn...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >> >> > Lew evidently has some memory problems...TARP and the early stimulus
> >> >> > packages were BUSH initiatives, just a NAFTA belonged to his daddy.
> >> >> > L
>
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com>
> >> >> > To: Open Debate Political Forum IMHO
> >> >> > <opendebateforum@googlegroups.com>
> >> >> > Sent: Sat, May 26, 2012 11:34 am
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Here are some facts about the debt and the deficit and
> >> >> > Bush
> >> >> > and Obama
>
> >> >> > As I said in my original post, most economists agree that the
> >> >> > one-time
> >> >> > spending for the stimulus
> >> >> > was necessary and
> >> >> > beneficial.http://www.advisorone.com/2012/02/17/the-stimulus-three-years-on-did-...
>
> >> >> > In addition, the consensus among nonideological economists is that
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > measures taken by Obama and the Federal Reserve prevented the
> >> >> > recession from becoming worse or even turning into a second Great
> >> >> > Depression.http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/fact-check-romney-on-th...
>
> >> >> > On May 26, 5:08 am, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > Bush is not running for president.
>
> >> >> > > Obama solved nothing and the country became worse under Obama.
>
> >> >> > > TIME FOR A CHANGE !
>
> >> >> > > On May 26, 3:47 am, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > The costs ballooned before Obama took office. As I said, the CBO
> >> >> > > > estimated that the deficit for fiscal year 2009 (10/1/2008 -
> >> >> > > > 9/30/2009) would be $1.2 trillion before Obama was even sworn in
> >> >> > > > as
> >> >> > > > president.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/27/barack...
>
> >> >> > > > If you look at the graph at the following website, you can see
> >> >> > > > exactly
> >> >> > > > what caused the $1.2 trillion deficit in 2009 and subsequent
> >> >> > > > years.
> >> >> > > > Note that for 2009 a lot of it was because of the economic crash
> >> >> > > > and
> >> >> > > > the TARP bailout. Here's a quote from the referenced article:
>
> >> >> > > > "The recession battered the budget, driving down tax revenues
> >> >> > > > and
> >> >> > > > swelling outlays for unemployment insurance, food stamps, and
> >> >> > > > other
> >> >> > > > safety-net programs.[3] Using CBO's August 2008 projections as a
> >> >> > > > benchmark, we calculate that the changed economic outlook alone
> >> >> > > > accounts for over $400 billion of the deficit each year in 2009
> >> >> > > > through 2011 and slightly smaller amounts in subsequent years.
> >> >> > > > Those
> >> >> > > > effects persist; even in 2018, the deterioration in the economy
> >> >> > > > since
> >> >> > > > the summer of 2008 will account for over $300 billion in added
> >> >> > > > deficits, much of it in the form of additional debt-service
> >> >> > > > costs."
>
> >> >> > > >http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3490
>
> >> >> > > > On May 25, 8:39 am, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > Bush never signed a 2009 budget.  Just Obama has never signed
> >> >> > > > > a
> >> >> > > > > 2010,
> >> >> > > > > 2011, 2012 nor 2013 budget.
>
> >> >> > > > > Why is Obama over-spending income by $1.5 trillion dollars
> >> >> > > > > while
> >> >> > > > > Bush
> >> >> > > > > never over spent income by more than $600 Bilion dollars with
> >> >> > > > > the
> >> >> > > > > exact same wars?  Bush was fighting those wars for 5 and 6
> >> >> > > > > years.
> >> >> > > > >  Al
> >> >> > > > > the sudden the costs balloned when Obama shows up?
>
> >> >> > > > > On May 25, 10:15 am, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > The cost of the wars will continue to add up long after they
> >> >> > > > > > are
> >> >> > > > > > over.
> >> >> > > > > > By one estimate the total cost will be $4
> >> >> > > > > > trillion.http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/much-wars-cost-report-says-4-tril...
>
> >> >> > > > > > The budget for Oct 2008 to Sept. 2009 began as a spending
> >> >> > > > > > request by
> >> >> > > > > > Bush, who had been in office 8 years, and was signed by Obama
> >> >> > > > > > on
> >> >> > > > > > Mar
> >> >> > > > > > 12, 2009, which was about 50 days after he took office. If
> >> >> > > > > > someone
> >> >> > > > > > plants a time bomb, he doesn't have to sign it to make it go
> >> >> > > > > > off.
>
> >> >> > > > > > It's very true that Obama has failed to end the war that
> >> >> > > > > > Bush
> >> >> > > > > > started.
> >> >> > > > > > However, it's also true that it's easier to start a war than
> >> >> > > > > > it
> >> >> > > > > > is to
> >> >> > > > > > end it.
>
> >> >> > > > > > Obama hasn't spent very much money that I know of except for
> >> >> > > > > > the
> >> >> > > > > > stimulus and except for continuing the policies that were in
> >> >> > > > > > place
> >> >> > > > > > when he took office. In fact, when you think about it, what
> >> >> > > > > > significant amounts of money has he spent, except for the
> >> >> > > > > > stimulus
> >> >> > > > > > money and what money did George Bush spent and what did he
> >> >> > > > > > spend
> >> >> > > > > > it
> >> >> > > > > > on?
>
> >> >> > > > > > On May 25, 6:55 am, lew <lewc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > > How did Iraq explin so much deficit?
>
> >> >> > > > > > > The Itraq War only cost about $1 trillionfrom beginning to
> >> >> > > > > > > end. - Same
> >> >> > > > > > > as the Styimulus that went to the unions.
>
> >> >> > > > > > > Afhanistan is "Obama's War."  The War we need to fight in
> >> >> > > > > > > Obama's
> >> >> > > > > > > words.
>
> >> >> > > > > > > P.S.: Bush never signed a budget for 2009.  All the
> >> >> > > > > > > spending
> >> >> > > > > > > in 2009
> >> >> > > > > > > is Obama'spending.  Obama has been over spending his income
> >> >> > > > > > > by
> >> >> > > > > > > about
> >> >> > > > > > > $1,5 trillion each year.  The most Bush ever over spent
> >> >> > > > > > > his
> >> >> > > > > > > income is
> >> >> > > > > > > about $400 Billion. - About 2 1/2 timnes the Bush rate of
> >> >> > > > > > > overspending. in  Bush's worst year.
>
> >> >> > > > > > > On May 25, 8:44 am, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > In doing a little bit of research, I came up with the
> >> >> > > > > > > > following
> >> >> > > > > > > > information which appears to be completely accurate:
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > 1. Before Obama was even sworn in as president, the CBO
> >> >> > > > > > > > estimated
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > > > > > > > the deficit for for fiscal year 2009 (10/1/2008 -
> >> >> > > > > > > > 9/30/2009)
> >> >> > > > > > > > would
> >> >> > be
> >> >> > > > > > > > $1.2
> >> >> > > > > > > > trillion.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/27/barack...
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > 2. Only a relatively small amount of the stimulus money
> >> >> > > > > > > > was
> >> >> > > > > > > > spent in
> >> >> > > > > > > > fiscal year 2009. The stimulus didn't really begin to
> >> >> > > > > > > > ramp
> >> >> > > > > > > > up until
> >> >> > Q1
> >> >> > > > > > > > of
> >> >> > > > > > > > 2010.http://keithhennessey.com/2009/06/03/will-the-stimulus-come-too-late/
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > 3. Most economists agree that the one-time spending for
> >> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> >> > > > > > > > stimulus
> >> >> > > > > > > > was necessary and
> >> >> > > > > > > > beneficial.http://www.advisorone.com/2012/02/17/the-stimulus-three-years-on-did-...
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > 4. The growth in government spending under President
> >> >> > > > > > > > Obama
> >> >> > > > > > > > has been
> >> >> > > > > > > > slower than during the Bush and Reagan administrations.
> >> >> > > > > > > > Federal
> >> >> > > > > > > > spending is lower now than it was when Obama took
> >> >> > > > > > > > office.
> >> >> > > > > > > > The so
> >> >> > > > > > > > called Obama spending binge never
> >> >> > > > > > > > happened.http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/19/446990/obama-bush-reagan-......
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > 5. "The economic downturn, President Bush's tax cuts and
> >> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> >> > > > > > > > wars in
> >> >> > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq explain virtually the entire
> >> >> > > > > > > > deficit
> >> >> > > > > > > > over the
> >> >> > > > > > > > next ten years (see Figure
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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